David Parker on what Trump and a whiplash world mean for New Zealand

A wide-ranging conversation with the opposition spokesperson on foreign affairs. 

Even before the second Trump term began, the world was a volatile place. But since January 20, across eight whiplash weeks, the pace of change has been astonishing. Donald Trump’s America First geopolitics, melding expansionist and isolationist instincts, has created a febrile, volatile atmosphere in foreign affairs.

In the coming days, Winston Peters will meet Marco Rubio, the US secretary of state, in the most important engagement between New Zealand and Washington so far in Trump’s second term. Winston Peters, an experienced minister for foreign affairs, is expected to approach the meeting with caution. 

How differently might the opposition spokesperson for foreign affairs, David Parker – a previous minister for trade and climate and a former attorney general – tackle the challenge?

“There is a realpolitik here,” he said. “That means that you don’t put your head above the parapet unnecessarily, and you don’t provoke a response, particularly when things are so volatile.” But while “we understand that the government wants to tread with care”, Parker condemned New Zealand’s refusal to join 79 countries in pushing back against the US sanctions against the International Criminal Court. 

“It’s one thing for the United States to say, look, we don’t want to be part of that international institution, that’s their right … But it’s another thing for them to sanction countries that do cooperate … New Zealand wouldn’t sign up [and] we thought that that was wrong.” It was important, he said, to “speak up at a time like that”. 

Parker was keen to be clear, however, that, were he in Peters’ shoes, he would not be looking to make a scene in DC. “I think, in truth, we’d be being careful with our language, not to be provoking a response from the US administration, as the current government is.” Behind closed doors, he would be sending a sterner message, as Peters could well be, too. “I would be saying, please don’t trash the international institutions. You know, we need them.”

The broader breakdown in the conventional international order and emergence of populism had roots that pre-date Trump, said Parker. “The underlying trends have been there for a while. You know, the the ineffectiveness of the United Nations, the overuse of the veto in the Security Council, the way in which, on the back of the undermining of the authority of the UN, there seem to be more and more breaches of the international rule of law, which in turn make people more cynical about the effectiveness of the UN … Some underlying trends have been the undoing of the consensus that was largely driven by the US, in concert with other countries like New Zealand since World War II.”

Ahead of a speech for Diplosphere with the title “Navigating the New World (Dis)order in Turbulent Times”, Parker joined Toby Manhire for a wide-ranging discussion on foreign policy and the acute challenges faced by the world and New Zealand. The special edition of Gone By Lunchtime spanned a range of subjects, including Ukraine, Gaza, the Cook Islands’ deal with China and the recent muscle flexing by Beijing in the Tasman Sea. Parker explained the Labour Party stance on Aukus, and covered Five Eyes, tariff threats and defence spending. The conversation inevitably touched also on Labour plans to introduce a capital gains or wealth tax, as well as the role social media has played – and continues to play – in “undermining civil society in New Zealand and everywhere”. 

He said: “I’ve been in politics now for over 20 years. I’ve been attorney general, had a lot of portfolio responsibilities in trade and foreign affairs. I’ve got a keen interest in civil liberties. I’m a real believer in free speech … I’m just saying you shouldn’t be able to sell a dangerous product.” Parker’s personal view is that “the only way through this is to remove the exclusion of liability that’s been afforded them for third-party content”. He explained: “At the moment, there’s a piece in our telecommunications legislation which says that social media companies are not liable for content that is published through their platforms or given access via their platforms.” The different rules that apply to such companies, he argued, should be revisited, given their impact on democracy. 

“Do I think that’s one of the most important issues facing the world? Yes, I do. Could New Zealand fix those issues alone? Unlikely. Will there come a point in time when the world just gets sick of the overreach of some of these megalomaniac tech billionaires who pay tax nowhere and interfere in foreign countries? Maybe there will. Should New Zealand be willing to be a participant if the world reacts against the overreach by those billionaires? In my opinion, yes. Is that coming tomorrow? I don’t know. Is that a decade away? I don’t know. But I think we should be having a conversation as citizens of the world.”