Tara Ward watches the big interviews from Dame Jacinda Ardern’s promotional book tour.
Dame Jacinda Ardern’s memoir A Different Kind of Power was released around the globe this week, and hot on its heels came Ardern’s promotional book tour. New Zealand’s former prime minister gave a series of interviews to a variety of national and international media outlets, speaking to everyone from Christine Amanpour and CBS to Seven Sharp to Oprah bloody Winfrey. Not only was it a chance for Ardern to answer questions about her early life, political career and style of leadership, but it was also an opportunity for the world to – at last – find out what the Dame’s favourite emoji is. Here’s what she had to say.
Seven Sharp
Ardern began her interview with Hilary Barry by announcing that this chat – and not the one with Oprah or the BBC – was the one she was most nervous about. The reception in New Zealand is the most important to her, Ardern said, and admitted to feeling “a bit squirmy”. Later, she acknowledged that she knows she remains a reminder of tough times for a lot of New Zealanders, but that Aotearoa is still home.
Barry and Ardern covered plenty of topics from Ardern’s book – including a breast cancer scare and a positive pregnancy test during coalition negotiations – with Barry sometimes reading aloud from the memoir. They talked a lot about kindness, and while both women admitted to being bawlers from way back, Ardern reckoned we should embrace our overthinking and worrying. “It’s not often you get leaders talking about these common character traits as not weaknesses, but strengths,” she said.
Not a single tear was shed in the 30 minute interview, but this writer/overthinker would pay good money for Hils Baz to read me a bedtime story every night.
CBS Sunday morning
The big revelation here was that Ardern’s local cafe in Boston charges an extortionate $6USD ($10NZD) for a sticky bun. A Boston bun, no less! This short interview with CBS’ Robert Costa saw Ardern reflect on the changes to gun control after March 15 (“if we really said we didn’t want this to happen again, we needed to make it a reality”), and the place of empathy in politics. “We teach our kids to be kind – why shouldn’t we role model that in politics?” Sure, sure, but let’s hear more about the time the barista mistook Ardern for Toni Collette?
The Rest is Politics
Ardern was at her most relaxed with The Rest is Politics’ Alistair Campbell and Rory Stewart, cracking jokes throughout the hour-long podcast. Her memoir became a springboard to dive into bigger themes, with the interview touching on personal vs political drive, the state of progressive politics today, and about how Ardern is too coy about describing fellow political leaders in the book. “There’s certain audiences for certain things,” Ardern explained, while I couldn’t stop looking at the globe on Ardern’s shelf which had Australia placed front and centre.
Maybe Campbell noticed it, too. He asked Ardern to rank China, the US, the UK and the EU in order of the importance of their relationship to New Zealand. “That’s a terrible question,” she answered, arguing that this kind of binary thinking is the current problem with foreign policy. Undeterred, Campbell pressed on. Which did Ardern prefer, England or Scotland? Ardern is Scottish, which left Campbell with the only option left available to him: to bring up the controversial spear tackle during the 2005 Lions rugby tour of New Zealand.
ABC News In-depth
It’s not often a 2017 clip from The AM Show is shown on Australian television, but Ardern’s interview with ABC News’ Sarah Ferguson (no, not that one) dragged that pointed Mark Richardson rebuke up from the deep recesses of our cultural history. “For context, this is the day after I became leader of the Labour Party, seven weeks out from the election,” Ardern explained, as we relived the moment she unleashed the finger point to end all finger points in response to Richardson’s argument that women should have to disclose their pregnancy plans to employers.
Eight years on, Ardern had no regrets. “There’s a real sense for me in that moment of ‘it’s fine for me’, but what about everyone else?” she said. “I don’t think anyone for a moment would assume that when an employer asks you your plans, it’s because they’re going to prepare a gift basket for you.”
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah Winfrey’s podcast studio looks like a beautiful summer greenhouse, with lovely rattan furniture, lush green plants and… big microphones. What better setting for Ardern to have a hearty natter about imposter syndrome, pandemics and lockdowns with the one and only Oprah? Winfrey began by recommending Ardern’s memoir for “anyone wanting leadership in their own lives”, and the conversation flowed easily from there.
“I am in awe of your ability to stand in such grace and such power,“ Winfrey told Ardern, as they discussed putting power to empathy, Ardern’s unexpected pregnancy and leading through a global pandemic. We saw clips from the upcoming documentary film Prime Minister, which gave an insight into the realities of leading a country while also navigating pregnancy and parenthood. We watched Ardern feeding baby Neve in parliamentary offices, pumping milk in the back seat of a car, reading documents late into the night. Breastfeeding wasn’t easy; as a young woman in power, there was no room to fail.
What did Ardern learn? “You can do it all, but don’t expect to do it alone.”
Oprah sipped chilled water through a straw while Ardern talked about gun control, Covid-19 and Ernest Shackleton. Then, after 75 minutes and several American ads for weight loss injections, it was over. “People say don’t meet your heroes, but I’m so glad to meet my hero today,” Oprah said. “Come back to New Zealand soon,” Ardern replied. “There are plenty of people who want to go hiking with you.”
RNZ
There was not a garden fern in sight for Ardern’s interview with RNZ’s Jesse Mulligan, who appeared to be sitting inside in some sort of heavily curtained tomb. Mulligan took us on one giant hoon of a chat, veering from small talk (“where have you been?” he began) to misogyny in politics to the moment Ardern told Winston Peters about her pregnancy over a platter of club sandwiches.
“Do you still, according to the Mormon tradition, keep three months worth of groceries in your house?” he asked. Ardern does not. Mulligan was worried about how David Cunliffe came off in the book. “He looks like – what’s the RNZ word for this – a douchebag?” he continued, having looked off camera to presumably check the official RNZ style guide. Ardern, ever the politician, said something about having just put her own experience on the page. “You don’t talk much about Winston Peters, can you explain him to me?” Mulligan asked. “No,” Ardern laughed.
After 30 minutes, we came to the really important stuff: the quickfire question round. Ardern wasn’t keen, but she got on with it, just like the Queen told her. “What’s your most used emoji?” Mulligan queried. (Cry laughing). “When was the first time you drank too much?” (Mid 20s). Finally, Mulligan asked the question that was on nobody’s lips: First kiss? “Absolutely not,” Ardern replied. “If it didn’t make the book, it won’t make this interview.”
Read Madeleine Chapman’s review of A Different Kind of Power here.
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